Monday, May 25, 2009

Torture is TORTURE!

So this week in U.S. News Dick Cheney has been on his "cover my ass" tour making appearances on all these news shows to defend the Bush policies, particularly the ones dealing with torture. Obama has already stated that he is open to the prosecution of these crimes because if the US was indeed waterboarding prisoners and employing a host of other torture like tactics, which they were, NEWSFLASH that is torture. And according to the United Nations Convention Against Torture the practices employed by the CIA under the consent of the Bush administration officials were illegal. So now it is up to U.S. courts and prosecutors to prove that the memos were written with the intention to incite torture.

It is so funny to me how the U.S. wants to be the driving force behind putting these world rules into play about what is allowed and not allowed. However, when we break the rules we expect everyone to turn a blind eye and just let us do what we do without repercussions. I was honestly a little disappointed when Obama first seemed hesitant in giving the go ahead to prosecute these acts. I think how the U.S. moves on from this will be a big indicator of our future standing in the world and in our foreign relations. If we are honestly trying to clean up the foreign policy mess that Bush made I believe it is imperative for these acts to not go unpunished and for us to face the same responsibility as the rest of the world for these crimes.

Cheney should be the first one prosecuted with his lying, two faced, conniving ass! He insists that these tactics have kept us safe and were essential for our post 9/11 security. Just like how we went to fight a war against people who didn't even attack us on 9/11, right Dick??? I am with Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen. He says, “The Obama administration ought to call Cheney’s bluff, if it is that, and release the memos." Let’s see the memos and decide for ourselves whether harsh interrogations saved American lives.

And poor Nancy. This broad doesn't know if she is coming or going! I am inclined to believe she may not be telling the whole truth!

"I was not briefed! I was just informed that the briefing had taken place." Ok Nance, Soooo ummm even if this is the truth you aint feel the need to get briefed. I mean this is U.S. integrity we are talking about here. But this junk is getting messier and messier. Now she is flat out saying the CIA are some LIARS! Like they aint tell me what they were doing! Soooo we know the CIA aint going out like that. They responded, "Let me be clear. It is not our policy or practice to mislead Congress," CIA Director Leon Panetta wrote in a message to agency employees that was released to the public. "That is against our laws and our values." I honestly do not know who to believe because I do not believe the CIA is the most honest organization either.

All I have to say is this, NO immunity for ANYONE! They need to get to the bottom of this and punish them all! I am sick of poltitcal figures and government getting a slap on the wrist for committing major crimes meanwhile Ray-Ray's in jail because he had a dime bag.


Dr. J said...

I think that Obama will not release those memos because it really isn't necessary. They can't prosecute people for tactics used during a war it opens a pandora's box. Case in point, we were very ignorant in that we had no clue how to fight terror the only thing they could think of was to use stricter and harsher interrogations tactics. I think now we're open to trying something different but at the time I can't fault them.

Nancy Pelosi can keep lying if she wants to, I don't believe her one bit.

And let's be clear about the War. We went into Afghanistan because of 9/11. No one ever said we went into Iraq because of 9/11, we went in there to remove Saddam Hussein from power and establish democracy. We went into Pakistan to help fight terror from a government that has no infrastructure to do so themselves.

Up&Coming Buppie said...

1. I honestly question if the memos actually exist due to the fact that Dick lies so much.

2. You actually CAN prosecute for tactics used during a war. They prosecuted the Nazis after WWII and Videla's government for the Dirty Wars in Latin America. I believe what you are getting at (correct me if I am wrong) is the double standard I am talking about which is that Americans should be excused and not tried for their war crimes. Waterboarding, starving people, making them stand in cold rooms ass naked are all war crimes and are able to be tried according the United Nations Convention Against Torture. I am not saying they should be tried in American courts but they can definitely be tried in international courts have and they have the grounds to do so. The question is if the international courts have the balls to prosecute us. If someone were torturing US soldiers the US would be out for BLOOD!

3. I totally understand why the U.S. went into Afghanistan. However the administration was just looking for ANY reason to go into Iraq. The Bush Administration made up some BS about "weapons of mass destruction" so they could get the regime change. And the Administration was CONSTANTLY trying to connect the war in Iraq to 9/11 which is the point I am making. They were saying Hussein was connected to Al-Quaida and all kinds of crap to justify another war that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. But let's be honest which war was the focal point for the Bush Administration. Definitely not the one in Afghanistan. It is said on the news all the time that they dropped the ball on the war in Afghanistan and it was a campaign promise of Obama's to do the job that was supposed to be done there.

Maybe it is just the humanitarian in me (and the harsh Bush Administration critic) but I do not believe that torture is right on any level and I do not believe it gives any credible information. If someone is being tortured they will tell you anything to get you to stop rather it be some version of the truth or just the rant of a helpless person.

msteroftheflames said...

A. I agree that Obama should not release the memos. Guatanamo Bay has historically been beyond the reach of US Law and the Courts thereof, and this has played to the advantage of the US (quicker turnover).

B. Not everyone there was tortured and not everyone tortured was innocent. I disagree in that the US DEFINITELY knows how to fight terror. But that kind of fight (and there are many of them) is and will remain unpublicised.

C. We went into Afghanistan as an eventual staging point for Iraq. We set Hussein up against the Russians, then we used him, kicked his but in the Gulf War, and killed in the Iraqi War. He was the powerhouse in the region and we wanted that for ourselves.

Similarly, we helped Ngo Dinh Diem (Vietnam) come to power, we established ourselves in the region, and then we quietly stepped aside and literally allowed his ass to be assassinated.

D. Unfortunately, torture does yield information that can be cross-checked. If someone is lying, they can be tortured until they tell the truth or reference someone who does. That is why the prisoners have been kept there for so long.

E. Releasing the memos could open up the US for all sorts of attacks and criticisms, and non-military personnel in other countries will bear the brunt of that burden. Remember many Americans clamoring for this information are not on the front lines fighting and are not in another country living. Consider N. Korea.

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